I am wrapping up 2024 and ringing in 2025 with a conversation about time and patience (and AI too, of course), with my old friend and self-proclaimed introverted IT geek,  Alan Seiden of The Seiden Group.

We met at a usability meeting in New York when Alan was just a young introvert.

Who knew he would go on to build a successful IT firm with 16 employees (and counting) and give talks all around the world?

Alan and I have talked before about how he made the transition from awkward techie to tech celebrity. (Listen to #324: From Awkward Techie to Tech Celebrity Aug 2017)

But today we’re talking about time and patience – respectively a resource and a virtue-- both of which Alan has used very wisely to get this far.

I love the way Alan speaks so slowly, and pauses to make space for his conversation partner, unafraid of the silence. Not to mention the way he experiments with crazy ideas, which often turn out to be good ones. Time is the hero of this story – we can never be reminded often enough of how precious it is. 

He also shared so many nuggets to start off your new year on a positive note, including a book I have just downloaded on Audible and am listening to over these quiet holidays, "Take Your Time: the wisdom of slowing down" by Eknath Easwaran. 

So listen here (and below)...

 

If you like this one, check out episode #451 with Alan too: From the “Where are they now” series (Aug 2022) 

If you want my help finding actual clients using AI, check out my new 1:1 AI Client Finding Coaching Calls or you can just sign up for my Quick Tips at marketing-mentor.com.

And if you like what you hear, we’d love it if you write a review, subscribe here and sign up for Quick Tips from Marketing Mentor.

Read the complete transcript here

ilise benun
Hello Alan. Welcome back to the podcast.

Alan Seiden
Hello ilise. Good to be here.

ilise benun
Yes, and go ahead and introduce yourself first, for those who don't know who you are.

Alan Seiden
I'm Alan Seiden. I'm founder of The Seiden Group and we work with people who run classic systems in the IBM i platform. But we kind of combine old and new, so it involves technology and people skills and helping people feel comfortable...and learning, constantly learning.

ilise benun
And are most of your clients corporate? 

Alan Seiden
Yes. But it's very personal. Usually the IT departments are kind of small, often, even though the companies are large. And so we work on a very personal basis with people.

ilise benun
Nice. And before we get into the topic, why don't you, because we've known each other a long, long time, and you know how to market yourself, so I would love to hear how you're marketing yourself these days.

Alan Seiden
Yeah, ilise remembers me back when I was so shy I didn't even give my business card out. "Why would someone want to talk to me? What do I have to offer?"

ilise benun
I do remember that.

Alan Seiden
Well, a lot of it is content marketing. I write a blog post every week on our topic, because there's a lot of need to discover information and get information out. And so sometimes my article is the only one. Also I speak at conferences, and I don't know what else to say. I've just kind of gotten known over the years. So when I travel, people around the world tell me, "I've learned so much for your articles."

ilise benun
We call that networking, strategic networking.

Alan Seiden
Right, right. I'm just doing my thing, meeting, meeting the market where it is and what I can offer.

ilise benun
I love that listening to the market too, I'm sure.

And I am thinking of this as my year end episode for 2024, You had responded to one of my messages recently and told me that you were on your way to give a little talk about patience, and I just wanted to know more. You haven't told me any more but I thought it would be a good topic for end of year.

So first, tell us how you think about patience. What was your talk about? You don't have to give the whole talk, obviously. But what does patience have to do with an IT geek?

Alan Seiden
Oh, yeah. Well, I think we are also told to drive ourselves toward greater efficiency all the time, doing everything faster. And that's the promise of AI. You could do whatever it is -- do the wrong thing faster, I like to say.

But going to our efficiency and profit and in it, people miss human interaction and feeling that others have the time for them. For example, a couple of weeks ago, I was doing a support call with a client. They had a question. I thought we needed a phone call, and though I answered his initial question, I also said, "You want to know anything else?" And just wait, oh, oh, yeah. Well, while you're on the phone, he asked something else. Then he asked another question. I sent him an article, and then another one. I said, "Well, oh yeah, this would be a good knowledge based piece." So I write it in one minute. I write the article while he's watching this is on Zoom. I let him watch my process writing the article for him. And he says, "This is so refreshing. Usually, anyone helping with support just wants to get me off the phone as soon as possible, and you were willing to be there and answer all my questions till I was satisfied." Yep, good. That's what we're here for. And it was, I think, very moving to him that I wasn't trying to rush him off the phone. So that's one aspect of patience, of course, this case, I'm actually interested in the topic too. I want to improve my own knowledge. So patience also means that we can be present even when it's not a passion of ours that we're working with.

ilise benun
So what I hear there is what I've been calling lately, caring as a marketing tool. And it sounds like patience is an element of caring. Do you agree?

Alan Seiden
Yeah, it's part of being willing to just give the person the time and you don't have to control everything. Ilise here you said, "Well, I don't know what Alan's going to talk about, but I trust we're going to have a good time of this call and do something of value for everybody." And I do the same thing. I think too.

ilise benun
I love also that you answered his first question, and then you said, "what else?" And then you just wait. I wonder if the old Alan, who was shy and didn't want to give anyone his business card, would have been terrified of the silence while waiting?

Alan Seiden
Yeah, possibly. I'm not worried about having to know everything either, that I might be asked something that I don't know, because...

ilise benun
Why not? Alan, what's wrong with you?

Alan Seiden
Well, partly, ilise, I have a large network now of people. I could find the answer from somebody if I don't have it. "That's a good question. Let me find out, because I don't think everyone, no one knows everything,"

ilise benun
Not even AI?

Alan Seiden
Especially not AI. Well, maybe in some fields in mine, no, no, no, not even AI. So yeah, I'm comfortable just taking a chance.

And I create meetings and invite people, just thinking that we'll learn something together -- that I don't have to have all the answers. And really to make myself have all the answers, really is too much of a burden to answer everybody. Once you get so big and important as I am, ilise, then you can't answer everybody's question individually. I'm sorry, but I can't answer individual questions.

No, we do, but we try to have a group and then take a chance and see where it goes, and then kind of facilitate it, and you kind of wait. No one says anything. I give them time. Anybody? Any newcomers have a question who doesn't consider themselves an expert and like, wait? 12345, you know, because I'm the type of person -- if other people are speaking, I usually wait for a pause because I don't interrupt. So I figure there may be other people, especially introverts, who may need time before they may speak up.

ilise benun
All right, I just made that connection between introverts and, not that it really means anything, but I is the first letter of introvert, and T is the last letter of introvert. I kind of like that.

Alan Seiden
Good I like those off beat patterns too.

ilise benun
But tell us a little bit more about when you say you create meetings like, what's the context there? How could other people create meetings that people would feel comfortable to come and ask their questions? Is that content? Does content come out of that?

Alan Seiden
Content definitely comes out of it. Well, for instance, there's a software editing and programming tool that's become popular, and we're kind of associated with the creator of it. And I decided to have a meeting twice a month. It's called, well, the product is called Code for i. We call it Code for I Fridays and meet every other Friday, 2:30pm Eastern Time. I figure the week is almost over. We're all tired of work. We can do something else, and there are a lot of questions, and I we just invite people to sign up for free, and come ask their questions if they have a problem. We can show their screen on Zoom and troubleshoot it. Sometimes we have a guest expert that we invite to talk about something. Otherwise, we wing it. I have sort of a format. I steal a lot of ilise phrases, like, "Do you have any burning questions?" 

So we ask that first -- people get a chance to do that, any discoveries, anything you'd like to share, and we'll do that. I have no as anything that I find something to cover, and I take notes, and we learn a lot, and our everyone's knowledge improves. And actually, eventually we're going to do support, actually sell support for this. But that came out of all those meetings. It built my confidence. It built my confidence that we could support it. We're known for it, but that's really a free meeting, and we have maybe 40 people coming, and our list is in the hundreds. It's one of Alan's crazy ideas, like, what am I doing this for? And then it turns out, yeah, it was a good idea. People are spontaneously posting on LinkedIn. "Alan, thank you for starting these meetings." And sharing how meaningful it is to them, what they're learning from it. 

ilise benun
These are open to the public, or just for clients? 

Alan Seiden
This one is open to the public, they have to register. So we don't put the link to have spam come in, right? No bots, no bots -- people have to register and then they could come. I do another one that's only for clients, at least. We know that the importance of structure --the structure is what makes the program work. And so we do support for programmers (or developers, we call them) so we'll answer questions. But what if the programmer has no questions over some period of time, but they're too busy, so we started a monthly monthly meeting for them. This is for clients, where they can meet each other and someone will bring up topics and they can learn have new like we can only ask questions about a topic that we know something about already, but maybe there's a topic we are not familiar with, or didn't even know a question to ask. As they say, That's Passover, right? It's one who didn't even know what to ask. So there's always the one who doesn't know what to ask. And so this the group meeting makes that happen. And again, I don't have to be an expert. I learn from the attendees. It's very surprising who speaks up. People who are quiet will speak up anyway.

ilise benun
And do you use AI in these meetings at all to summarize or send out, you know, to people who missed it? Maybe the highlights are using AI in any of those ways?

Alan Seiden
I think we're using AI to help us make a transcript, at least knowing at what point in the timestamp a given topic was brought up. So like last time, maybe 12 topics came up, Joe talked about his change management, that's a kind of topic, and we'll tell people where to look, and then we send the recording out from zoom afterward.

ilise benun
Nice, yeah, and let's just talk a little bit more about AI, because I'm curious you said, "AI is doing all the wrong things." What is that you're saying?

Alan Seiden
I was exaggerating to be funny, but I think, well, when I search, when I do an AI search or chat GPT search on a topic that I know a lot about, I realize how wrong the answer is. But if I don't know much about, it can get me started. And then I mean in truth, then I can ask the AI, "Well, something seems wrong about your answer. Are you sure?" And then it will clarify and get closer. So one just has to push back, yeah, push back. Be assertive and push back and be alert to it. But I don't consider myself a real AI expert. I think it has a lot of potential for us with our clients, in modifying code, because computer code follows certain rules -- that's easy for AI to kind of learn. So I think there's a lot of potential there.

ilise benun
But for all of my listeners who are web designers or web developers or programmers or coders of any kind. I think a lot of them are a little bit worried. And I'm curious what you think. Are you afraid of being replaced? I mean, I know your business has, as you've said, a lot to do with the people part. So how do you see AI coming in? Or how is it? I mean, I know a lot of people say, well, it's already here, or, you know, it's not like it's in the future.

Alan Seiden
I don't know, yeah, I don't know. I think it's all changing. One person who works for me was has been involved with AI even in the 1980s but he says it's still in its infancy. Now that it's really AI is rather still pretty crude. It's like faking its way. It's like AI is faking it all the time, but that it will fake it till it makes it. Yes, pretending to know something. But within five years, he said, it's like the early business of personal computers in the 80s. Everyone was talking about it, but it took some time, but it did, did develop over time. Interesting, yeah, but we should learn it. We should learn how to use it. Definitely learn it. Get get good at and learn it now.

ilise benun
One more question, just circling back to patience, right? Because when I think about patience, I think about rushing -- it's the opposite of rushing. And I did make a New Year's resolution or a birthday resolution a couple years ago that I will never, ever rush again, right, right? And I've done pretty well, actually, I have to say. And I'm just curious, how you think about rushing?

Alan Seiden
Absolutely, that's the perfect question. Ilise, yeah, I try not to, I really try not to rush. Also, there's a book, by the way, "Take Your Time: the wisdom of slowing down" by Eknath Easwaran. 

I try to take a look at it every day, just to remind myself about taking the time for other people and for myself. And I mean, if you're like me, you use your calendar and your schedule, it's the only tool we have, in a way, to structure of our weeks. I try to not schedule too many meetings on Mondays and Fridays. On Mondays emergencies happen and I don't want to be scrambling around. I want to be able to deal with them. And also I have time to plan my week. Friday is time to finish up the week and have any other kinds of calls. So it's probably using the schedule and not having this random meeting scattered around. And if I feel impatient, things aren't moving fast enough, having some mindfulness techniques that I can use where I can tell myself, "Oh, This is impatient. This is what patience is like." And just take it on that level and then be a bit more in the moment, even appreciating all the details while seemingly nothing's happening or someone's talking too long. There's always something interesting, whether it's the tone of their voice, the temperature of the room, or other sensations that are going on that make the moment interesting.

ilise benun
It's funny, this idea of someone talking too long, because as a moderator of many discussions and facilitator of meetings, it is an interesting phenomenon. And sometimes I can't tell if it's my own impatience, or am I channeling the impatience of the others? But you also want to give someone the space and the time to say what they need to say. And some people do go on longer than others, and some people don't go on at all. So I don't know -- that's kind of interesting. Do you find that too?

Alan Seiden
Absolutely, especially when I'm moderating. I know, first of all, I know they're going to go on too long. No matter what I tell them in advance. They're good because they want to be conscientious. They're trying to be conscientious and complete, and they're going to go on too long. But the thing is, if I need to interrupt someone and ask them to stop, I don't want to do it in an abrupt way where they feel jarred, so to not feel impatient, if I can deal with my own impatience and I can do it with some warmth. I was sitting with someone at a conference and she was just telling me much too much information. I couldn't handle the overload, so I eventually calmed down. Put my hand on her shoulder, smiled at her and said, "That's too much information." I smiled at her with some warmth and kindness, and she smiled. She knew.

ilise benun
I think, I think people do know. They just can't control it, right? It's so interesting. All right. Actually, I know I said that was the last one, but I have one more thought to share, and this is another one of my sayings, which perhaps you've heard. But I'm curious how you think about -- you know I love alliteration, so I often advise people to practice patient persistence. What's your thought about that?

Alan Seiden
Yeah, practice patient persistence. Yes, the time our day will come, it happens. There was a client who really needed that support contract, and I was really irritated they kept not appreciating. "Don't you know how great this contract is?" I was saying you need this thing, but I basically had to wait until I heard that they were having major problems or some problems. And okay, now's the time, and I had to be tough. I got a friend, actually, to help me be tough. I wrote the email while my friend was watching me on a shared screen session. That's one of my tricks to help me do it. And I wrote to them, and I basically made it really clear they should do it. There was more than one reason actually to do it. And then they said, okay. So it was a matter of waiting until they were actually experiencing the problem.

ilise benun
Yeah, they were in enough pain...

Alan Seiden
Yeah. They were in the pain. They could foresee more. I certainly could, and I wasn't going to help them unless they had this contract. I could see more problems. So it was a matter of waiting. The time comes. They come back to you. They probably will come back to you, but just be out there and be ready.

ilise benun
All right, I'm sorry. I just thought of one more question...

Alan Seiden
ilise, as much as you want, I have all the time in the world for you.

ilise benun
Awesome. Thank you. I'm just curious. Do you have any, not predictions, per se, but just thoughts, about 2025? For yourself and your business? How many people in your business?

Alan Seiden
About 10. (Note: actually it's more like 16.)

ilise benun
That's awesome. Any goals or resolutions or thoughts or dreams or wishes, anything. How do you see the evolution into 2025?

Alan Seiden
I think I need to pick and choose what I do, what my activity is, how many tasks and projects I take on, because now there's so much I can do. I want to do everything. So, which is not the problem.

When you're starting out, you think, "why would somebody want to talk to me? I'm so flattered. This is great." And then after a while, the question becomes, "Which ones will I do? Which conferences will I say no to? Which do I say yes?" Everything sounds good. But that's partly that maybe I need more help in certain other ways. How do I take care of myself, to keep my health up, get enough rest, anything smart? It's a matter of working in a smart and intelligent organized manner. Maybe more automation, the things that are tedious, taking care of them in a more automated way. I have someone helping with that. But I love these meetings and maybe doing more. I mean, the ones I'm starting, those have been really great, just very rewarding on a personal level. And they also lead to, they teach me about what the market needs and give me confidence. So it's like starting by doing something and learning from it. Yeah.

ilise benun
Love that. Thank you so much for making time today and sharing your thoughts and your ideas and just staying in touch and always responding as you do to my content marketing, just to keep our conversation going. I really appreciate that.

Alan Seiden
Anytime. ilise, I appreciate you're still at it and getting better and better.

ilise benun
Thank you and I can see that you are too.